WASHINGTON -- During CUNA President/CEO Dan Mica's tenure asspokesman and lobbyist with the association, he has seen changes inhow Congress functions and has revamped CUNA's operations to focusmore on grassroots efforts, helping the organization fine tune itsmessage.

Credit Union Times recently spoke with him in hisoffice--located on Pennsylvania Avenue between the Capitol andWhite House--about the climate on Capitol Hill for credit unionsand on the overall political situation:

Credit Union Times: How would you describe theenvironment for credit unions on Capitol Hill and what frustratesyou about the way credit unions are perceived there?

Dan Mica: In terms of recognition and acknowledgementof who we are, we're at the highest level we've ever been at. Arewe where we need to be? No. They've started to see us as a force tobe reckoned with and come to us for help. We try to our help ourfriends.

We have one of the top 10 PACs and will have close to $4million. so it will be a record-breaking PAC this year. We're in aposition that there is strong recognition of who we are and what wedo. We are recognized, but we are not yet feared; that is a bigdifference. The National Rifle Association is feared, the AARP isfeared. The credit union system has not been as proactive as we mayhave to get, as some of the banks have been. We get reports ofbankers threatening to defeat anyone who says anything nice aboutcredit unions. We have not taken that approach with people who havenot helped us or been hurtful, we've just taken the positiveapproach of helping to support those who help. I said 12 years agowhen I came to the credit union system that we were a mile wide andan inch deep. Now we're a mile wide and one foot deep or two feetdeep, so we have a way to go.

Twelve years ago we were not on anybody's radar and were notconsidered as an entity in Washington. Now we are. We've made greatstrides but still have a way to go. We are now at a stage where itis still difficult for us to pass legislation quickly, but we are astage where we can stop legislation. Part of that is the premisethat it's easier to kill a bill than pass a bill, for anybody.

CU Times: What's your assessment of the banks' clout?Are they feared?

Mica: They have taken more of a harsh, negativeapproach toward credit unions than we have [toward them]. It'sdifficult for us to be negative; it's not in our nature to be uglyor nasty. We may have to get a little tougher in the next Congress,and we'll be talking and reviewing our strategies in the secondhalf of this year.

CU Times: Is that because of the possibility of havinga Democratic president and a Democratic Congress might trigger suchthings as the Community Reinvestment Act rules on creditunions?

Mica: I wouldn't say in terms of any specificlegislation but in terms of members who tell us they want to helpus but say, 'I'm concerned about the banks' reaction. We're thewhite hats' and so it makes it difficult. We did some interestingfocus groups a few years ago and found that banks could beat up oncredit unions and [congressional] staff would say, 'That's OKbecause that's what banks do,' but we tried using nasty phrasesabout banks and they were aghast. They wondered why would creditunions sink to the level of what banks do. There's a higherexpectation of us, and that handicaps us.

I am confident that any issue that really impacts the creditunion system negatively, we can literally have hundreds ofthousands if not millions of people mobilized in short order. Ourproblem is that issues that touch just some segment of the movementit's harder to get that rallying effort.

CU Times: Talk about the political climate. What impactwill the presidential race have on credit unions? You served in theHouse with John McCain. What impact would a McCain presidency have?An Obama presidency?

Mica: They are coming from two totally differentdirections. John McCain is coming from the business/market sideapproach, and Barack Obama is coming from what you might call theconsumer/Main Street approach. And so I don't think either one islooking to change our tax-exempt status. In the case of Obama, hemay be looking for, as anyone concerned with Main Street or Joe SixPack, regulation or approaches that minimize opportunities to takeadvantage of people. Maybe even some what I call 'love me to death'legislation. 'I love credit unions and love what they do and wantthem to do more, on things like CRA.' With McCain, you'll see moreof a Wall Street approach and try to seek tax cuts and regulatoryapproaches that are similar to what we've had in the last eightyears.

CU Times: The Treasury Blueprint on regulatory reformis something; you had, to put it mildly, some strong issues with.What are the chances that parts of it will be passed, especially ina McCain presidency?

Mica: I am absolutely shocked and stunned that theTreasury Department would put that report out in the way they did.I would say for now and for the immediate future that there is nochance that that will get any legs in Congress or the nextCongress. It's awful early to start predicting who's going to be incontrol. But almost all the analyses so far predict that there willbe an increase in the Democratic majorities in the House andSenate. All the Democrats in the leadership, and those in positionsto deal with issues of interest to credit unions, and mostRepublicans, have said the proposal is dead on arrival. As one ofthe league presidents said to me: 'This Treasury Blueprint, is likea dormant virus. It's on a shelf and could be back at any time.'They came up with that, especially the part on credit unions (whichcould regulate them out of existence), without regard to theconsequences. And the consequence is it could hurt half thepopulation financially. We are the benchmark for low-cost financialservices.

CU Times: Any recollections of McCain when you servedtogether? I know you were on different sides of the aisle. Were youclose?

Mica: I had very high regard for him. He is very smart,very capable. We got along very well. We were not social friendswho went out every evening, but I have nothing but the highestregard for John. He did vote for 1151. Between Obama and McCain weonly have one recorded vote to look at and McCain was with us (andObama wasn't in Congress). We don't have any reason to believe he[Obama] would be anti-credit union. My best recollection was thatthe Arizona folks and the Illinois folks have good relations withthe two candidates. But I do know this, regardless of who is inoffice, there always will be pressure to raise revenues so wealways have to be on guard. The deficit is extremely high. But wecan show that the amount of money that would remain in consumers'pockets far outweighs the meager revenue from a tax on creditunions.

CU Times: Have you met Sen. Obama, do you have anyimpression of him?

Mica: I just shook his hand at a reception.

CU Times: Lobbyists have been demonized by bothcandidates. How has the lobbying industry changed in the timeyou've been lobbying? Is the talk about changing the system justtalk and will it be back to business as usual after thecampaign?

Mica: When I first came here, it was a more bipartisanapproach. The lobbyists with good information have always beenwelcomed. Those who become political operatives who operate in thegray edges have created the current climate and caused a recoilingby some members in their dealing with all lobbyists. Fortunately,people like CUNA have not been caught up in that. We have abipartisan PAC, we try meticulously to only present legitimate factand argument and they can be debated. But we are the real thingwhen it comes to grass roots, the real thing when it comes torepresenting consumers. There has never been an accusation that wehave generated phony lobbying letters. They come from the heart andcome with names and addresses of who wrote them. Those who havebeen on the edges and been extreme on either side will pay a price,but we are the poster child of how to advocate in a democracy. Butthe overreaction will subside.

CU Times: Were you pressured by Republicans when theycontrolled Congress to only hire Republicans?

Mica: I heard of others who were pressured, but we werenot. And I heard from many people on both sides of the aisle whosaid they hated that.

CU Times: When you talk to your members, what's thebiggest misconception they have about how things work inWashington?

Mica: Our league presidents are very politically savvy.But sometimes when I talk to credit unions they say, 'Pass thisbill. Write it up, tell them what you want, don't take anythingless and just pass it. Talk to Charlie or Bill because he's withus.' Well, Charlie and Bill are with us until there are specifics,and then they are under pressure about who they are going tooffend, because it's an election year. Sometimes there isn't thatrecognition. Usually they realize you don't eat the whole apple atonce, but take a little bit at a time.

CU Times: How does money influence the process?

Mica: Votes trump money every time, but you can't be successfulwithout money. We have the money, in terms of a PAC, but we alsohave the followership in terms of issues. Any member of Congresswho gets on a radio show and defends banks at the expense of creditunions, will get eaten alive.

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